Hybrid And For-Profit Business Models «

Hybrid And For-Profit Business Models

Non-profit social entrepreneurs often struggle to scale up their innovations without adequate access to the growth capital, distribution systems and infrastructure readily available to conventional businesses. Rather than accepting these limitations, many are increasingly pursuing hybrid models that draw from the best of both worlds, incorporating traditional business structures and strategies to achieve a social bottom line. This session recorded at the 2008 Skoll World Forum looks at the challenges and opportunities that accompany these new business models, including an overview of different approaches and in-depth discussion with social entrepreneurs at the forefront of this movement.

Wow, I was told that this section showed up high in the ranking in the preschool conference Research and I guess we were right thank you for coming this morning I'm David Broncachio, I'm the anchor man from public television United States has a weekly investigative news and interview show called Now on PBS and I'm the guy.

In the United States if you've never thank you.If you have never visited the United States, the streets run lousy with anchormen and women, specifically troubled he said to our audience, when you're maximizing your profit we're not looking at whether the poor people are getting out of poverty. You're always looking at your bottom line.

How much money we are I think out of this business with poor people. He was disturbed when they did IPL, some of the investors with non profits originally invested in the but some were just individuals who took their money out and for Mohammed Unis is a question of what you do with the money apparently a bank when they make money it goes back into more landing.

So, it is an ongoing discussion. We are going to touch on some of those points throughout our discussion and we are going to learn some of the wonderful way is that people are addressing these crucial issues that they are trying to solve in ways that I think will endure even beyond their lifetimes.

So, I am going to walk over there and give some quick introductions. Then we get rolling.

You have in the longer version of your programmes the ornate bios of our panellists and they have all kindly agreed that I don't have to read every single word of those this beautiful color pictures, if you get company at it I recommend the reading. So I keep this sort of quick forgive me Priya. To my right and left lets welcome Priya Haji, CEO and co-founder of World of Good, which works to battle poverty around the world through ethically sourced products, often crafts made by about more than ten thousand artists, in nearly fifty countries and they're available for purchase in the United States in places like Whole Foods.

Let's welcome Priya Haji. We also have with us Trelance Adi, President and CEO of Water Health Iinternational which brings innovative approaches to water treatment to villages around the world. He came to his present position after more than two decades at Johnson and Johnson medical and is a recognized entrepreneurial leader and an inventor.

Doctor Adi. Let's welcome now Lisa Kimbo, who for seven years was a key figure behind the Pizza Ahjusnot to mention CFW Shops in Kenya. An innovative way to use franchising to deliver healthcare in Kenya. She was a banking and healthcare executive and has now left CFW shops and is now applying her experience working for that highly successful project into other areas what you can learn from that experience In applying to areas outside of healthcare.

Liza Kimbo. And we have Sebastian Marrow, who started "Friends International." To work hands-on to reintegrate street children in Cambodia and Laos. These important projects have taken great strides toward Sustainability through revenues generated through some some pretty nice restaurants and some other projects in which the young people.

We'll learn a trade and the business generates revenue that supports the overall operation, shall be fascinating to hear about in just a moment. Sebastian Marrow And to help us frame our discussion of hybrid profit, non profit social enterprises, the wonderful Dr Tina Seelig, executive director of the Stanford Technology Ventures Program, a director also of the Stanford University Entrepreneurship Network.

Tina teaches a course at the Stanford School of Engineering, I'd love to, you've gotta let me in, it's on creativity and innovation in organizations, and she's worked in the past for the management consultant Booz Allen Hamilton, and actually she has a PhD in neuroscience, right, from Stanford Medical School.

Tina Seelig. So Tina you are welcome to go up there, and jump in for a moment, with, which is an idea that's not proprietary, it's very open source, and we'd like to share it with the rest of the media. It's just a simple idea called solutions based journalism. It's the idea that your pieces lead you toward folks who are not just sitting there inert Passive and upset.

The people who have a positive vision somehow,of a solution. And even if the solution isn't fully realized yet, even if there are hurdles to discuss. In the context of talking about the solution this can be hard hitting valid journalism, but we think it's energizing and we think it fits in I think quite closely with the values of a conference like this, and through this kind of solutions based journalism we have met some incredible people in introducing to our audience.

People, I will be forever affected from my interactions with them and I hope our audience will be as well. And, for whatever reason this people that come to mind are often women, very strong women. We just met, last week in the show, Winona Ward from Vermont, who had an early career driving around the United States with her trucker husband, but it turned out she had been a victim of domestic abuse whose in her childhood and she found out that her own brother had been arrested for abuse and she realised it was a cycle of violence within her own family that had to be addressed.

So in her forties she goes to law school and then she starts this wonderful non-profit that goes to women in rural parts of Vermont, who don't have easy access to legal representation and it's a very inspiring story, so we got to meet Wynona last week, on my programme if you'd watched you would have met Gloria Flora the woman with the most perfect name in the history of environmental journalism Gloria Flora, her real name, was with the U.S forest service and came to be the top person for service in Montana, and realised in looking through the fine print that she had the unilateral, the sole authority to ban Oil and gas drilling in her national forest.

Nobody could stop her, although the forces of evil sure tried, and she made a very brave stand. And even now. If you do is I do as view be are viewers to do you get into helicopter and fly over Rocky mountain front where the plains yet of the almost vertical face of the rocky mountains. It's quite presteme as you travel north, to the Canadian border.

Weather the Canadian border The Canadians, who are so much an inspiration to we American citizens with so much of their enlightened view of life. And names don't have you in danger species act and some of the other legal environmental protections the theme Americans have. And ride up the Canadian Border you can see the rocky mountains look like when gas to on it's a scard landscape in our area.

So gore you for you got to meet and If you watch my programme you want to meet summerhill helps be honor pan of the Liza Kimbo was featured in one of our stories not too long ago. Liza who was a banking and then Pharmacy executive in east Africa Kenya, who, when an American businessman had a brainstorm, it was actually Lisa and her partners in Kenya who were able to realize this, and bring health care to people who are often without health care, in both rural parts of Kenya and some of the most terrible slums on this earth.

We have an interesting program for you here today. I know a lot of you are here because it said hybrid models and you thought that perhaps Jeff Skoll has bought Toyota Priuses as party favors for us all. I am sorry to tell you it's a different kind of hybrid model. The hybrid we're looking at, if you think of the great Venn diagram here.

Non profit, for profit and the piece where they intersect, we're gonna talk about that and we're gonna look at it really in two different ways. We are going to try to get a lot accomplished during this session. In part, we're going to look at it as a discussion really of the Between those two ideas wherefore profit enhances the non profit mission where they rub together where they are discordant the culture of these two, the two of sometimes opposing cultures coming in and united for a common purpose, it's gonna be that discussion.

The other part of this is equally important the practical applications, what people have learned as they try to pull together for profit approaches to make their efforts, to make the world a better place more sustainable, and what they have learned for themselves. They can share with us about ways forward on some of these issues, it's a very exiting panel and then we are going to the way its going to work is I'm gonna turn it over in just a moment, to someone I'm going to introduce in just a moment Tina Selick, who'll help outline the frame a little bit more closely Then, we're going to go and have a nice discussion with each of our panelists.

So that you can get a better idea about the good work they're doing and what they've learned. And then, this is crucial, this is why I'm bidding you to think about this early, second hour of this depends on you my friends, I'm going to really make this interactive and you can help me with that. It's going to be your questions and your views and your experience that we can hash out here to see if we can get to a better understanding.

Now before we turn it over to some introductions, and to Tina, I need to address just briefly I think an important controversy that's at the center of a lot of these discussions, so that it's clearly on the table. I don't think it's going to be our sum total of our discussions here during this session but just so it's out there when I mentioned a few moments ago that like to do what we call "solutions based journalism".

It is journalism. We're not selling the idea of the businesses that we cover, when we do stories about social enterprises. We're trying to, in an engaging way, get our audience to think about the goals of these organizations, how they work. We're trying to get them to be inspired to take action in themselves and that means the happy parts of the story, it also means the edgier parts of the story.

The good and the bad, the successes along with the failures. We tried to depict them all in our coverage and one of our stories that we've done in this series, that gets to this issues the most sharply, there's a wonderful group in Mexico that does micro-lending, and has taken it to a new level. It's called Compartamos.

Maybe, you know some of their work. Dedicated people put Compartamos to work, and they have made a quantum leap in their efforts to encourage people to get capital into the people so that they can help themselves. And, they did an IPO a year and a half ago and raised something just south of a half a billion dollars with that organization.

Really very very successful. And one of the principles of Compartamos, Carlos Danel is quoted on our air as saying "If we think capital markets are the devil we never gonna sell a property. He also says we have to stop looking this is zero sum gain and look at how we can reach business in social objectives in a successful way.

But you know who else is in that piece, Mohamed Younis. Really almost a patron saint In this whole area of micro landing when we are the noble of course and he frankly is troubled by some of the work that compotomas does. Really quiet specifically troubled. He said to our audience when you are maximizing your profit we are not looking whether poor people are getting out of hub you are always looking at the bottom line how much money we are making out of this business with poor people.

He was disturbed the money did IPO some of the investors were the non-profits that originally invested in the enterprise. But some were just individuals who took their money out. And, for Mohamed Younis, it's a question of "what do you do the money, apparently bank, when they make money it goes back into more lending.

So it's an ongoing discussion. We're going to touch on some of those points throughout or discussion. And we're going to learn some of the wonderful ways that people are addressing these crucial issues that they're trying solve, in ways that I think will endure, even beyond their lifetimes. So I'm going to walk over there, and do some quick introductions, and we'll get rolling.

You have in the longer version of your programs the ornate bias of our panelists. They have all kindly agreed that I don't have to read every single word of those. These beautiful color pictures, I recommend the reading. So I'll keep this sort of quick, forgive me, Priya.To the right my left let's welcome Priya Haji CEO and co founder of whole of good which works the battle property of round the world through ethically sourced products often crafts made by more than ten thousand artists in nearly 50 countries and are available for purchase in the United States in places like Whole Foods.

Let's welcome Pria Haji. We also have with us Chalance Hadi, president and CEO of WaterHealth International, which brings innovative approaches to water treatment to the villages around the world, and came to his present position after more than two decades with Johnson and Johnson Medical, and is a recognized entrepreneurial leader and Dr. Raddy.

It's welcome Maldives are cimber for seven years was a key figure behind the piece I had just mentioned, "CFW Shops", in Kenya, an innovative way to use franchising to deliver health care in Kenya, she was a banking and has left CFW Shops, the primer experience working for that highly successful project in to other areas what you can learn from that experience in applying to the areas outside of health care Lisa Kimbro.

And we have Sebastian Marrow who started Friends International to work hands on to reintegrate street children in "Cambodia" and "Lous" these important projects have taken great straight towards sustainability through revenue generated through some restaurants and some other projects which the, which young people learn a trade and the business generates revenue that supports the overall operation, which I'm going to be fascinated to hear about in just a moment.

And to help us frame our discussion of hybrid profit nonprofit social enterprises, the wonderful Dr.directHonourship is a new ship network. course of this Sanford school of engineering. And loved it. Get let me it's all an creativity innovation Organisation patients and she has worked in the past for the management consultant busan in Hamilton and she has a PhD in nerve science right?

from Stanford medical school. Can you see that ? So Tina, you're welcome to go up there and jump in for a moment Tell me if this is going to work OK? They are right back there ? superb! I'm. This is my first time at the Skoll board forum and I have already been blown away by every single person I met.

So I hope I can something I tell you I'm the exactly director the Sanford technology Ventures Program. Now what it that? The philosophy of STVP is that it is not good enough for scientists and engineers to come out of school with purely technical training the idea is they really need understand not just the depth of some specific field like computer science and mechanical engineering or biology.

But they also need to understand the entrepreneurial world that they're gonna be working in. Not just for themselves, so they can make better contributions and move ahead in their careers, but also because this allows them to really be changed items. It gives them the tools that they need in order to take problems and use them as opportunities.

In fact that's actually our definition of entrepreneurship what it needs to be an entrepreneur, infact one of the most important things that we think about is that we are not just defining entrepreneurship starting new companies, its about being entrepreneurial in anything you do. And the to find an entrepreneur is being with travel and turning them into opportunities.

About trading value and doing this by leveraging the resources around you. And the wonderful thing is this is exactly the same sort of thing that social entrepreneurs do. Except that the problems that they pick are very focused on being social issues. So in advance of this because I don't spend my day every day thinking about social entrepreneurship, with entrepreneurship in general I did a lot of homework I talk to everyone I can get my hands on to absent after the entrepreneurship at absent after for model, I spend lot of time talking to my colleagues at the Center for social innovation at the business school at Stanford.

Last week I was at the National Collegiate Inventors and Innovators Alliance, with lots of people who were talking talk about social entrepreneurship, and I would just sort of sit everybody down and say okay help me out with this because I really wanted to understand; and what I've learned is some really interesting things.

Let's just start out... if we flash back forty years, 1968. Put us back in 1968... the people who wanted to make a big difference in the world were the social activists. They were the folks who were picketing in front of the nuclear power plants. They were the one who were trying to get those who wants power whether it was the governments or the universities or big corporations to embrace their ideas.

And then on the other side of the spectrum, were the corporations, you know, the sort of, the capitalists, who were saying we're measuring all of our success in terms of how much money we make, okay? So you guys buy this? And the coolest thing is they have learned from each other and we trade this really wonderful world in the middle now.

And so what we have is a social activist who said "You know what, I don't have to wait for someone else to solve problems. I can do it. I can use these ideas of commerce, enterprise and entrepreneurship To move my agenda forward, and to be personally empowered to make that happen. And also, the wonderful thing is that corporations have said I don't need to.

Measure my success in terms of the bottom line. I can have a double, triple bottom line, I can bake social mission into my goals as well. And so we've.
This wonderful soup in the middle where there's a lot of creativity in terms of coming up with products, process, and business models that allow us to move forward.

Really important I understand. So what I'm wanna to do with our mind a few different idea than models that of involved some of the panelist who can dive deep in the as well as I am sure many of people in the audience have other ideas and so I realize there was no way that i was its going to be treated entirely of what happens in hybrid social models because its evolving world and there is a tremendous amount of room for creativity.

So I'm just going to outline four different examples and then I'm going to tell you a little story about something at Stanford and end with a little a quick movie, which, hopefully will keep you entertained for two minutes, one of the most interesting models that I think, is for profit companies. I need to make a profit but the major reason that they create a profit in the structure their businesses as poor profit is because having profit allows their venture to both be sustainable and scalable, and that's the key to entrepreneurship.

It's about being able to scale. And tell it's very different and saying I'm look and get hand out and can't I'm looking for hand out keep my conversation going. Infact I would say that STD social entrepreneurs. Because every time I take on a new project, take on a new activity, I need to figure out how am I going to fund this.

Is it going to be funded by my customers, am I running a conference and it's going to be paid for that way? Am I going to get sponsors? What are the different ways that I'm going to fund things? And that's exactly what these these folks do. They go, okay, how am I going to have real customers who are going to actually pay for this.

One interesting example, actually from Stanford, we have a course called "Design For Extreme Affordability." Some of you might have heard of it - it's gotten quite a lot of attention - and what they do, is they design products that are appropriate for customers who obviously don't have a lot of money.

One short little example, which I think is really inspirational, is one of the teams identified a problem that in the developing world there are often babies that are born that need to be in an incubator. Well, you know how much a big incubator in a hospital costs. I mean, it's thousands of dollars.

You need electricity; it's got all these monitors; things break. It's not apropriate for some place in a remote region. So what they designed is a little tiny sleeping bag and the cool thing is, actually the "hot" thing, is that they found a wax that it's melting point is at body temperature. So there is a little insert that come out, you put in boiling water, it heats up to body temperature, you put it back in, and for several hours it keeps the baby at the right temperature.

And they realize that's really what people need. They don't need all of these monitors. They just need, 85% of the babies that are born prematurely just
and they can sell this for just a couple of dollars, there's a real market for this, and this is the idea of designing for extreme affordability, where your customers are those who are actually Okay, that's one example.

There's also the idea that you might have two customers. You might sell your product to a traditional market where they pay in market rates, but the profits you get allow you to subsidize that and also give your products away, your services away to some customers who can't So you basically have two market segments, one that is essentially subsidizing the other.

Another model is having essentially two businesses. I learnt recently about an organisation called one water, very interesting, many of you might know about it, where they have two businesses, one is they sell bottled water and all of the profits, one hundred percent of the profits go into distributing special devices that allow folks from the developing world who don't have clean water and a way to filter it, so essentially, they have one business, for profit that is designed as a way to make money so that it subsidses another completely different product to help those who are need.

And finally I wanna just mention to this facult you can have ask our tradition you know, not for profit venture, that uses entrepreneurial approaches, strategies and mind set and I think that's really an important thing. It's that being entrepreneurial is a mind set. It is about looking again at Thomas's opportunities, in fact as you mentioned he took a course on creativity and innovations organisations.

That is the entire focus of the course. I'd start out giving my students small problems, and over the course of the quarter the problems get bigger and bigger and bigger, until the students get very comfortable taking on problems that come to them. When I say bring it on you will give me a big problem and I will figure out some way to make it happen so I give profits that in who were also have to find creative ways to become sustainable and scalable, can use this mindset to make that happen.

So let me just step back and tell you a quick little story about something at for that hopefully will be inspirational to you, last year the Kauffman foundation, I'm sure many of you know the Kauffman foundation in Kansas City, it's a very large, influencial entrepreneurship Foundation decided to run National Entrepreneurship Week, and in fact this next year it's going to be International Entrepreneurship Week, and they called me up and said because of my role running the Standford entrepreneurship network, would you be interested in helping lead the effort on campus.

I said no problem, that would be great and I talked to all my colleagues. who were there, and everybody took a day, everybody, the business school, the med school, the law school, the engineering school, the student groups, everyone was putting on program, and I thought, you know, we can all sit around listening and we're all really good at learning from each other, but let's give people something to do.

Let's give a challenge, something that may have come out of my class. And so I came up with the idea of giving every team, and these were all volunteer teams, if you'd like to sign up to do this. One, a challenge for five days. And every team was given one pack of post one pack of 100 three by three post-its and told they had five days to create as much value as possible, value measured in whatever way they wanted.

I told the Kauf man foundation about this, and they got very excited, they said, well, can we roll this out nationally, I said, lets not stop there, lets make this international, so with one email to all my colleagues round the we launch this international competition and the interesting thing i had no idea what is going to happen in fact in one of the situation.

week i thought this is going to be,but distributes always out and do amazing things,95% of the projects that we are done had to do with social there were ninety teams they were hundredth ninety nine zero they were hundredth teams around the world Every single one picked some big social problem that they tackled in five days.

Now the wonderful thing is that this was all captured because there was a film crew.
the professional Hollywood film crew, they found out about this and they decided that they wanted to make this in to a movie. So they put film crews in 7 countries and watch the students over the course of the week.

And this has resulted in a 45-minute movie, which I will be happy to give you the URL, you can get it for free. It's www.imagineitproject .com, you just click on download the movie and you can get it. So what I am going to show you now is a two-minute video trailer for the movie. You will notice that Debra Dunn adviser for the Scoal Foundation, is in the movie, and I think that even though you only get a little bit of taste to see the energy that comes out of this and you see that students today have embraced this with great enthusiasm which gives me tremendous confidence that we are moving ahead in a world where the folks on the panel, the folks in the room but also the next generation of students are really really embracing this idea.

We're showing this movie, if we can, is this going to work? Perfect. Just two minutes.

Imagine the future the way you'd like to see it.

If you can imagine it than it can be. Imagine the future the way you'd like to see it.

If you can imagine it than it can be.

Go to the problem and imagine a world where that problem is removed and then say, "Well, how many steps are there from this world to that world?"

Imagine the future the way you'd like to see it.

If you can imagine it, then it can be.

Go to the problem and imagine a world where that problem has been removed and then say, "Well, how many steps are there from this world to that world?"

Imagining a new future.

Lights maybe if you could.

Imagine the future the way you'd like to see it.

If you can imagine it, then it can be.

Go to the problem and imagine a world where that problem has been removed and then say, "Well, how many steps are there from this world to that world?"

Imagining a new future, a new path, a new direction.

If you have the power to imagine it, you have the power to change the world.

Imagine a more perfect world than one we live in and then to actually engage in making that happen.

I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky.
I think about it every night and day, spread my wings and fly away. I believe I can soar. See me running through that open door. I believe I can fly.

People think the pressure is bad, but pressure in a very short period time can be very stimulating.

I believe I can fly. I believe I can fly. I believe I can fly.

It taps into the rawest level of your creativity.

I was on the verge of [xx]

It puts down
the gauntlet of the challenge and inspiration.

Sometimes, the silence can seem so loud. Now, miracles in life are more than [xx]

You never
have infinite resources and you're given this constraint, and at this constraint it's Post It pads. We define the value of our project as innovating outside of the box and the box here, is actually a Post It Note. We need your husband to full focus. grand total $3,200 entrepreneurship is an extreme sport, do it.

This is an important way Progress in my to experiment in focus i guess you people on a way. spread my wings and fly away. I believe I can soar, see me running through that open door. I believe I can fly. I believe I can fly. I believe I can fly. I believe I can fly.

Imagine it so I want to let you know we did another challenge just last month at Stanford and instead of Post its the challenge was rubber bands and I announced at the launch that the air got sucked out of the room but I have to tell you students blew me away and if you want to look at what students, that footage impact that is around the world there will be a new movie coming out in the fall focused on both the Post its and the Rubberbands.

We are launching another global challenge in November. So I want all of you involved with this, its really fun and easy. If you want to see what people did this last year go to, ev.stanford.edu, Theres no www.ev.stanford.edu, and you click on look at the winning submission, you'll see some amazing things that happened this year.

Anyway, I want to thank you so much, I can't wait to hear what that panelist says. Thank you very much. We'll borrow from that statement called "social entrepreneurship as an extreme sport" as we go By way of welcoming Pria, and you can start working your way up, Pria prefers to, to preform from there.

I was in Southern Mexico About a year ago Wahaka and had the occasion to spend some time with an Artisan. He, his grandmother, his wife. We have rugs. and they do it in a natural way. The pigments are all natural, they crush these little bugs that make bright red, and so forth. And we had a very earnest conversation about not me bargaining Come down as is the classic, as the classic response of tourists when you go around the world and meet an .

But what would be a fair compensation for the amount of labor that and his family put into these products. Its very interesting. And then we start talking about, is there any way that I had any skills in. Connecting him to a much wider market his market was anybody who came down that lane that might bump into him that he might sell a rug to well May I present, Pria whose figured out a way to connect people like the rug craftsmen with a huge market.

Pria, tell us about what you do.

Thank you, hi everybody my name is Pria, I run a company called 'World of Good' and I just want to say first I'm so excited and totally honored and psyched to be here. And for me, the joy in this is to share honestly what we've been doing, but also because I started World of Good from within Hass Business School with a group of my friends and so also whenever I'm at a business school I just feel really excited because I believe in all next things that are gonna happen, and all the next people that are here in the room and so I am really excited about that too.

And so to share what we are doing you know when we launched into this, we had a big goal in mind, which is the belief, as you so eloquently described, and this is an example of a product this is made by a project in Delhi, where it works with women in the slums, and they're actually using recycled trash bags that they're collecting from the trash melting them into this creative pleather, and then turning it into these beautiful bags and things like that.

And those of us that have traveled all around the world have seen that there are literally thousands of these kinds of initiatives funded by the UNDP, by Peace Corps, done by church initiatives, all kinds of projects; and they are creating sustainable economic development for many small communities around the world, overwhelmingly empowering women, allowing women to live at home, to not move into working in large factory and formal sector economies, and also allowing them to increase their wages and earnings, so that they can better feed their children, increase the nutrition and education of the next generation.

So, it's a really important activity, and yet, when you walk around in the US market, as the world's largest consumer economy, for better or for worse, we actually literally bought fifty five million dollars in gifts last year of which really only two hundred million were in any way related to ethical fair trade or conscious consumption and that includes food products that are not coffee, tea, chocolate.

Those are definitely getting much bigger growth. So when we looked at this problem we were like you know, what there has to be a structural scalable strategy that we can use that can really drive this to the next level, change awareness, and really our goal is to see if we can shift 2.5-5% of that $55 billion dollar market to conscious consumption.

And that really means 5 billion dollars moving to be bought in very different ways around the world and empowering hundreds if not millions of mostly women. And so when we went into that, it was kind of this idea that okay that is ahuge problem, can it happen, and I think we can do it. And what we did is we looked at some analogies of different industries, and so I wanna share...I know we weren't really supposed to use slides, but I couldn't resist.

So one thing we looked at is really the organics industry, or if you look at what's going on right now in clean technology. And what we saw is there's this pattern that we identified. One is that you have to have growing educated consumer demand, which is consumers that are starting to think about their purchasing power differently.

Then the second thing you have is on that side is innovation. And really companies and businesses that are putting out new products, new strategies to meet that educated demand. And then you have to have the third magic ingredient, which is transparent, replicable standards. So that what happens is as the demand grows, more innovators enter, but there's clear standards that ensure that your actually solving the real social problem behind this.

So with the organics industry they looked at how do you get millions of acres to not be farmed with pesticides?

Our goal was how do you move millions of dollars to actually empowering people because products are made ethically and sourced in ways that really help the people where they come from. And so, that little triple overlap is what we call inspired competition. It's where companies are entering and the competitive market is actually inspiring us to provide the best product, the best thing, that really helps people.

And that was the triangle that we want to trigger in our market. So what we've done at World of Good is...So really quickly I'll just say, our business model is basically, we are approaching this from all three of those triangles. What we've decided is that we would love for World of Good to become "the" recognized leading consumer brand and break through in much the way that Body Shop did and Body Care, or we saw Aveda has done, or the way that in the food industry you see brands in the U.S. like Newman's Own.

We studied a lot of their strategies and what they've done to create Create that consumer recognition and consumer demand. So, in our model, we have focused on a few different initiatives: one is we do a lot of in store education. We have a huge marketing and PR program, where we actually work to reach consumers, and educate them, not only about the products themselves, but about the mission, the purpose, all of that.

The other thing we've just launched is a new marketplace in partnership with eBay where we have a huge community educational site where the beta has just launched. And this year we'll reach about 250,000 people, just with community site that's educating people about conscious consumption. Then what we developed is certain innovations to bring the product to market.

So the first thing we did, we started three years ago, and we came up with the idea of using something like a Hallmark model. So those of you that are familiar in the United States with Hallmark, if you're the CEO of Walgreens, and you're thinking about having cards in your store, you don't want to have a million different cards, and you're like I don't want to manage this.

This isn't our core business, we really sell medicine. And so, we looked at that and said, that's a great analogy. We have an environment where we want to work with hundreds of small producers. We want to get retailers to carry this stuff, but it's too confusing for them, and they don't really know how to do it.

So what we came up with is a store in store program, where we drop in a fixture, and the signage, and all the information. And then we run it as a full service program for their stores. We now work with eleven hundred retail locations in the United States. We grew with, a fifty store test was our launch in the Bay area and then we grew to 300 stores which was all across the western United States, and then we grew to 1,000, and then this year we'll grow to almost 1,800 by the end of the year.

Some of our partners are natural food stores like whole foods things like that. And then we've just been working in campus book stores. So we work with Barnes and Noble college bookstores, and we just launched a partnership to test with Borders More and more towards the mainstream retail segment so that eventually you'll move into a mall or someplace like that and see these kinds of products.

So what we saw in this model is that we can work, we now work with 150 producer groups in 34 countries. And we've been able to create a really flexed supply chain. I can't see the clock, just so you know, so can you give me a time warning? Sorry, because I can't see because of that light. Three minutes, okay.

So, what we've done is we've really tried to work on how to flex that supply chain. And we keep the assortment changing in the stores and through that, we're able to work with many communities even though each product is scarce. For the retailer, it creates freshness, newness and change all the time.

Then the other thing that we've just launched, is what we saw is that in the retail partnerships we were able to help lots of communities where they can make higher quantities of product, so something like this bracelet. But there are many communities where a producer group just makes one thing, or there might be a person who is already in the U.S. that helping a community because they did a Peace Corps project or they did something like that.

How do we help those to scale? And so, we were lucky enough to form a partnership with eBay which has different kinds of special custom user experiences. For example, Sntubbhubb for tickets,or Half.com for books. And we're building a dedicated site which is world of good.com. which is just for small producers and people-positive products from around the world to be sold in one place, we've developed a whole trust system and a whole entire logic behind the products so that when.

consumer shopping they don't just see the product, they learn about it, they learn about the producer, and the entire thing's integrated into one experience. That's launching in the second half of this year, and then we also been working on individually designed products and we've done about 5,000 products over the last 3 years that are all hand made.

And then the last thing that we've done is really, we believe that the other key thing is transparent, replicable standards. And as I talked about, we really feel like if we want this to work, other companies are We're gonna have to enter. We want to see cost plus and target and other bigger internet players as well join this but when they do how do we ensure that it's actually that it actually benefits the communities.

How do you make this something that every company can do well?

And so, with that in mind, we have a nonprofit side where we do just standards work, and we have developed tools like the fair wage guide, that uses the Web to bring together data from 180 countries and help people to set their standards just slightly on that notion.

Oh, sorry. Okay.

Because that's, I think people will find it fascinating.

Okay.

How do you determine how much you should pay an artisan for all their hard work.

Yeah.So one of the key challenges obviously is that, so take for example this bracelet, which comes from a rain forest preservation project in colombia, if you are the producer and you made it. And if I came to you and it took you 20 minutes to make this bracelet and I offered you a dollar, that is an amazing price for that.

It could be great for your If it took you three days to make this product and I paid you a dollar, that's a terrible price. And that seems so intuitive to all of us in this room, but in reality in sourcing in the informal sector, which is, how actually large corporations in the United States are now moving, there are no regulations.

The ILO, the UNDP, these standards have not existed for the informal sector. So when we started World of Good, we knew not only can we build a great business, but we have to build clear transparent standards. And so the fair wage guide is the first web based tool that takes 200 countries' economic data, makes it immediately accessible in a point of interaction so a buyer or a producer can go in, look at a product, either redesign based on the time it took for how much they can get for the price, or you can look at the price and look at how much it compensates in relationship to the time of the producer.

And that is now being built into being the basis for some different certification systems, from the EFAT, from FLOW, and then also we have a whole system called Trustology, which is about organizing other trust systems.

So anyway, the part, so, last year we worked with, like, 15 thousand women in 34 countries. And this year we hope that will double. And then I didn't really get to this so I'll just go, forget it I won't use this line. But anyway, the main point is what I wanted to compare and contrast and I put these somewhere so you can download them.

I wanted to compare and contrast the for-profit side versus the nonprofit side and why we chose what we chose. A for-profit, I would say the most important difference, our business side, the branding and distribution; all of that is set up as a for-profit seed corporation. I'm actually the CEO of the for profit's side.

We have on the standard certification in all of the development initiatives we do that's incorporated as a total separate nonprofit and it's a 501c3. And it's funded in a completely different way because those, we believe, are assets that need to be held in the public interest. And as the tool like the wage guide and those standards get evolved, we're working in partnership with almost a hundred organizations around the world to build those standards, and those shouldn't belong to any one company, those are really charitable activities, and they're things that, in the long term, those technologies should belong to open source industry standard.

On the business side what we realized is that we really want to grow a scalable brand that's gonna get traction and stimulate that inspired competition and really the only we felt to do that was to drive it from a very traditional capital model. I have a slide that does say our capital and put this up like I said.

And we raised we went through used our friends and family money, we went through business plan competitions and then we raised very traditional financing including Draper Fisher Jervetson, who is actually in that previous video, is one of our investors, along with Omidyar, along with some, several large investors.

and we've used that capital and partnered it with patient capital; like Rudolph Steiner Foundation shared interest in Ecologic who were helping us with all of the, essentially microfinances and embedded into our model, and so we use those and we partner that capital structure in kind of an unusual way on the business side and believe that by growing a brand we create the returns that will create the sustainability around the destitution system.

Our sales are now, we don't release our sales numbers which is something businesses do, which nonprofits never understand. We have a team of about sixty-five people. We work with eleven hundred retailers, and our sales will be somewhere between, we're in the range of between 8 million and 20 million this year.

So it's a really exciting thing for us in a fairly short time.

And then on the nonprofit side, we You had very traditional. We took all of the profit from our first year before we had any investors and dumped it into getting the non profit going. That's how we started it and then we had The great foundations that came on board with us including things like Levi Strauss, those are really retailers that are interested in these standards, as well as we had Omidyar came in as well as a foundation, and then we've also had great donors individual donors that have helped us on building that standards work and building these tools.

And I'm happy talk more about that or anything else, but really excited to share our model and I hope there are many other industries where I believe billions of dollars can get shifted into the right purpose if we stimulate those three things to occur. And I hope that at least one more great business model is going to come out of this and I hope ours works.

Thank you, Pria. You know you monitor global affairs for long enough when you realize that underneath almost any global affairs story is the issue frankly of water. There's a very compelling, theatrical released documentary that's out. It was produced by one of our now colleagues called, "A Walk To Beautiful".

It's about traumatic child birth injuries, fistula, women, Ethiopia. It's very, very compelling. But sure enough, how come the prevalence is higher? Well, village women in parts of Ethiopia have to carry these huge jugs on their back at a young age. When you see the video and see the film of them walking with these jugs, the jugs tower over them.

They're three times taller than the person. It puts pressure on the lower spine, changes the development of the pelvis, contributes to this horrific issue that leads to the ostracization of women in their villages. Water, underneath that story. We gotta lick this problem. Trelance Adi is working on that.

Tell us about your for profit business.

It's a pleasure, and it's a long story, but I'm going to cut to only a piece it and when we get to the question and comment bit, we can elaborate a little further. I was one of those people who used to carry the water on my head. Now, at that time, it was actually quite an accomplishment for a young boy to.

you go to balance a bucket of water on his head without touching it and then walk him home. And if you do that, you can walk with grace. I don't do that any more, but I I used to do that. I was born in Ghana and I've been in the U.S. longer than I intended. In fact, I've lived In the US longer than I lived in .

But through a lucky corporate career, I kept seeing the same picture over and over whether it's in Asia, or Africa, or Latin America. It was the same story about water. In fact, there were other things and I'm a latecomer to the issue of providing clean water to people. I spent lots of my career in medical tech businesses.

When I became aware of water and the problem of water, I was aghast. I think for those of you who have been in medical technology businesses, you would say what, anything that affects two hundred thousand people is a cause worthy of doing something about. When I became aware of water, it was five million deaths a year.

I was sixty million children a year growing up with stunted growth because of diseases. And so you asked yourself the natural question, why isn't it getting solved? And our conclusion was that, it wasn't that people didn't want to solve it, in fact, there lots and lots of people with the good will to try and solve it.

The problem with this discovered, was that this is the domain that, it was a friend who has been running a sustainable initiative UNC not Cornell used to think, well, this was the domain of government and NGOs. This was not the domain of anything that anybody with, quote unquote smart money, ought to be engaged with, because you are gonna lose your money.

Well, as Prya said, and everybody knows, when you raise money the first round is friends, family and fools. So you have to imagine, I didn't have much family here that has any money, and we didn't have many fools where we live, and in fact if you take money from fools and you disappoint them, you get killed.

So that is the worst place you want to go. So you've got to look at your friends, and you gotta figure out how much money do they have to solve these problems. It's a lighthearted way of saying that we recognize that if we wanted to solve this problem on a scale that really makes a difference, then you are talking about something very different from government or NGOs.

And around the early sixties in Ghana - you probably know this better than I do 'cause you're the - they built this huge dam, hydro electric dam, in Ghana, and they displayed a whole lot of people around this dam. To this day - and I think it's almost forty years or more than that - those people who were displaced still don't have access to clean water.

They're still trying to figure out the problem. This story is repeated many, many times, where a government will promise that somebody's going to bring you water, because you need to do that to win elections, I guess. But it never comes. In the process, all these people are dying. So we decided to take ourselves out of the debate about policy and just do something.

So that's what's behind World Health International.

Fortunately, a brilliant scientist from India, [xx], had developed technology that we believed could really address the problem at a very low cost. So we raised money from friends, that we would call angel investors, and started this process of building a company to supply water to people who are poor, relatively, because that's where most of the problems are.

So, as we have moved forward, we have tried to keep a strong focus on what it is that we're tying to achieve. We don't care about the names that people call us, whether we're social entrepreneurs, greedy capitalists, whatever we are. The only purpose is to solve their problem where there is no solution.

And so as we get engaged in these discussions, people often ask me what I am. And as I've said to some people, it serves me well to know...not to know what I am. I have no answer. I think what's important is to chase the solution, as Priya said. So...there is a picture?

Is there a picture? Do you have it? Thank you, Priya.

So to cut to the chase, what Water Help does, and our focus is on what we call underserved areas or unserved areas, and these turn out to be mostly in rural communities. We have technology that can apply to many different areas. And as somebody said, "Well, why don't you do it in the US, make a lot of money, and then you can give some money to the people who are poor?" And our answer is, I've been around long enough to know the way I start is probably where I'm going to end up.

It's very difficult to take yourself off that train. So what we've done is to say we're gonna put ourselves on the cliff. We know it's hard to do. If we don't succeed, we are over the cliff. If we succeed, and we intend it to succeed, then we have way of addressing a major issue that can spill over to other areas.

So what you see up there is what we do in villages as a micro utility. And I'll get through all the services that we offer, but...What Water Help does is to go into villages - and these are villages that could be 2000 people, 5000 people, smaller than that - and build these micro utilities. And as many of you know, the problem with water and children and women mostly is that children cannot go to school because they have to walk long distances to go to get water, and so the idea that you really wanted to solve the problem, you had to bring the water to them also said that what had happened many time before that the people would create technology but they they ship the technology or the products whether there's no business ecosystem.

So who was going to take these thing, put them in place and maintain them. So what we had to do after a long series of of thinking is to come out with what we call the end to end model. So Warner Health is not just a company that sells eight product but provides a total solution and I just walked through with you how these micro utilities are born.

We go into a village we actually find the source, an appropriate source of water, and it could be from well, it could be from a river, it could be from a lake. And for a standard cost, we would go out to maybe one or two kilometers, and bring the water into the center of a community We would then build these micro utilities, which are water treatment plants, in the middle of the community because as many of you know who've traveled in the world Going to get water becomes a social activity.

That's where a lot of women meet and talk and so that has it's own implications about what happens when you bring the water into the middle of the community . There some of the woman feel that they can't run away from their husbands anymore so it's not as much fun but that it makes it very easy for people to get to the water.

We build these plants, which are treatment plants that actually provide portable water, which is WHO-grade water, and what we say is that, if you will not drink that water, the quality of water would, if you will not drink it in Santa Monica, California, we will not provide it to anyone, and the challenge is to do this and make it possible for somebody whose household income is two dollars a day to be able to afford access to clean water.

So, that's the focus. It's a technical challenge. It's a business challenge and that's what we set up to do. So, we build these plants. We hire local people, and by the way these plants belong to the community. They pay for it and we facilitate their purchase of the system. So it's a community owned property.

We run it for the community. And why do we do that? Why don't we just turn it over to some self help group to do it? Because we've seen it before, and we've caught, when the cameras are away, what happens? The people that you train with the high enthusiasm, they migrate, they get a job in the city or they do something else, and pretty soon whatever you put in place is going down.

So, we have tried to tie everybody's self-interest to the success of this facility. We charge a fee to maintain it. We charge a fee to operate it; we hire local people and we train them to run it. So we're generating the local employment, we hope. And then the community actually can generate excess revenues out of this asset, which is theirs to keep.

So we have, fortunately, [xx] Bank in India which is our biggest presence right now. Decided that this was fundable as a commercial enterprise. So we paid them commercial interest rates, and we financed the purchase through the receivables from the user fees. And, as I said, the user fees in India could be as low as one rupee for 12 liters of water.

Or two rupees. I guess two rupees use to be what, about four cents or five cents. We don't know what it is now, with the dollar but, somebody mentioned.

That must be controversial among some and some people see water as basic human right and that the model presumes that you charge money to very poor people.

Interesting question, we're not going to argue the point about whether or not it is a basic human right. As I said, we're dealing with a single factor whether it is not or not, while we are doing the debate, five million or two million people die each year. So our focus is not to take one position or another.

You could say it's a basic human right. We're still left with a question, what are those people gonna do for drinking to have clean water? And so it doesn't change. And what has been interesting is that right now, they are paying a lot more money for those who want to have access to clean water. In absolute terms, they are paying a lot more money than the people who live in the cities do.

It's incredible that I think when you have seen the data. 20% 25% 30% of their disposable income goes to clean water, and if they can not afford that, then drink the dirty water, and they know that in fact. So again its not a position about whether poor people should pay for water buy food, and we believe it will make the water accessible to them, they would pay for it.

So actually that was one of the concerns that people had, they would never pay for it When we put our first systems in India we were in a small village. We had assumed that less than twenty percent or thirty percent of the people would adopt. Within six weeks, eighty percent of the people in that village were coming to the site.

So they understand the value. Now what they will not pay for is something that is only marginally better than the muddy water they're drinking, but if you provide quality that's high enough, they would pay for it and as I said, the whole idea is to make it so that if they make $2 a day, they can afford it.

Any final thoughts before we Yeah. Well, the final thought is that the idea of providing all these services to people and we build these buildings, and in many of the villages in which we work. These are the most attractive buildings in the village. And we were told they were going to destroy this and that was inappropriate and you guys don't understand how village life is.

We took the position. Poor or not, everybody appreciates truly. And when you put beautiful things among people, they tend to take care of it. That has been the experience so far, and we're very thrilled with what's happened.

Johns, thank you. a while back, a business man, in the twin cities,, Indianapolis, Minnesota is reading the newspaper as we all do, he sees an article, we probably all saw The 20,000 children die of easily preventable diseases every single day and he was by that, but unlike many of us, he kept thinking about that and one day, unlike virtually all of us, he had a brain storm while sitting at a McDonald's according to the story.

of all places. The general idea was how can you apply this idea of franchising. Think what you may of the affect that Has had on the world. To guarantee quality and uniformity in it's products, how could you apply that to a higher social purpose. Not many of us get great brainstorms, big ideas. But the real challenge is to put them into force, what is the reality of it?

And so this business man, Scott turn to a genius form Kenya, Lisa Kimba, tell us how you applied this principle of franchise to bringing health to people who are under served by Kenyas health care system.

thank you David, what I want to do is, I want to talk about three you know, it's reinitiatives because I think the movement through the learning that I have had in terms of running businesses is what makes this whole discussion models, you know, quite interesting at least from my perspective. I left a career in banking.

I studied finance and I left the Korean banking about 12 years ago because I was, I saw a business opportunity in running pharmacies in Nairobi, which is where I was working. And so I started out by using the same principles that you've had. You know, took all my money, and family, friends' money and set up a business.

which was a retail pharmacy business, because of the opportunity to professionalize the delivery of a very basic health care, you know, intervention, the selling of drugs. Like any good business person, I was targeting those who could afford to pay for the drugs. And being a business person, I was recruiting trade pharmacists to provide this service.

And, you know, the business worked. We started with one retail pharmacy. It eventually grew to own four retail pharmacies. And then I started running pharmacies for the largest HMO and, you know, with time I was running something like 11 pharmacies and had a staff compliment of over 35 pharmacists and pharmaceutical technologists.

And we were serving...aiming to serve those Kenyans who could afford to pay for the services that we're giving.

Now, I also found that there was very little automation within the delivery of services. So corporate could not keep track of the payments that were being made out of pocket by employees who had medical and so I went out and I found in South Africa, they had lots of software available for dispensing packages, and I came in and I was using that within out pharmacy and we were some of the first ones to do that, and I found that the use of technology, again, really resulted in a lot of interest from corporate clients and we built up a large group of corporate client help, but then the economy took a downturn and the number of people that we were serving before who had been employed come into our pharmacies now and they were out of employment and needed to pay for the products out of pocket and couldn't afford to pay for the product.

And so you find, you know, people coming in and they have these us prescriptions, they're unwell, the doctor has three medicines that they need to buy, there I was really promoting this branded products because they give us the highest return and people couldn't afford it. And they would say, "Well, out of these three products, which is the one product that I need to take that will make me feel better?

And out of that one product, you know, can I pay it in installments almost?" You know, it was really a very sad situation. And I sat there and I was thinking, "Why am I running this business where the majority of my clients can no longer afford to pay for the product that I'm selling?" It just didn't make any sense.

And it is while I was looking for alternatives to good quality generics to, you know, companies that we could work with and start to exploit that particular opportunity that was coming up that I met with, you know, the American philanthropist whose idea was franchising in rural areas and providing not just, you know, essential drugs but basically a treatment package for people in the rural areas.

And so I jumped onto that. I was like, this is great. And eventually I was seeing that was a mortal that we could bring even into the cities because even in the city like in Arab, there's so many people needed that kind of intervention. So, my second initiative then was franchised outlets, working with nurses in rural areas.

Rural areas have a whole different kind of, different challenges as you can imagine In the rural areas, you have problems of geographical distance. People just live very far away from any sort of, you know, public health center. So, you have to a comeback issue of distance, the people traveling long distances, but in the other problem in rural areas is the relatively lower population density.

So, how do you set up a successful business in a village like where do with the water. How do you set up a successful business where people are in these remote villages where the income is low and they need the health care, and that's what CFW shops is all about, and CFW shops uses a franchise is model to standardize the delivery of healthcare, to keep to a short list of drugs and interventions to make it efficient, so that nurses can deliver care within the rural areas.

Now I've done that for seven years. And..

But would the nurses run the franchises for profit?

Yes, the nurse is running a for-profit business, so we don't pay the nurses, the nurses pay themselves. Out of their business. But, they've centralized a franchise organization, which is based in Nairobi that provides all the technical assistance, and they have to sign agreements and stick to the franchise principles.

And franchising works, in this way, because of the controls and the standards and building efficiencies by scale and purchasing in bulk. So all drugs are purchased centrally.

And I did that for seven years, have been doing that, and my concern is that I think the lessons that I've really learnt over the spirit is that yes, the health care is really needed. Nurses in Kenya at least, are available, and will work out in the rural areas where they come from. And the nurses can You set up.

At the individual unit level, they can set up a business that is profitable, for the most part. However, the organization that is required to support this, a franchise organization, really is not going to be in a position to break even or become sustainable for quite a while to come. because the challenges of supervision, the challenges of delivery of products out there to this rural population just means that, you know the bigger you're growing the more money you need to continue to invest into this unit, and each unit is not contributing back to the main organization to build up a fully sustainable entity.

The same time when working in from Arabia, you look at the low and middle income areas. And I find there that you have high population densities. You've got people who are in informal employment but they have some employment who need health care, who are willing to pay for the health care, but are, again, getting very shoddy services.

So come into any of these sort of middle to low income suburbs and you will find a number of clinics, a number of pharmacies. The quality of the care is highly...is not assured at all. You don't know when you walk into any of these outlets whether you are actually seeing a doctor or a nurse or a quack.

You don't know when you are buying that medication whether it is a genuine product, whether it is a counterfeit product, whether it's powder. And people who wake up every day to go out and earn a living - a taxi driver, for example, a construction worker - there needs to...the same way as we found in the rural areas, there needs to be able to go somewhere if they're unwell, see somebody that they can trust get a service that is prompt, that is efficient, no waiting times, so they can go back and earn a living.

Because if that person doesn't earn a living that day, then the following day. they are out of a job. Once you are out of a job, now you are into this segment that can only get charitable donations to survive.

What now I'm embarking on with an organization called Livewell Kenya is setting up treatment services, full fledged clinics that will be company owned. It's a chain of clinics that are located within these particular middle and low income areas that provide a completely full service. Also, our - having nurse practitioners providing the services, but with automation and with standardization as really the backdrop of providing efficiency , so that people can get what it is that they want.

No waiting time, they have all their records available.

We want to use cell phone technology to be able to track our clients and to be able to send information to clients. In Kenya one exciting product that has come up is called N'tessa, which is a system of paid Payment through your cell phone. So people who do not have credit cards can have Empessor with their cell phone.

And then through automation you can have a doctor in one clinic that's the anchor clinic, and that doctor can actually oversee treatment given out in satellite clinics by, and therefore building inefficiencies in this way so that you do have the medical providers that are needed. But the are the one's that are still delivering care because that is how you get serious control over the cost and delivery.

this is for profit now. OK. Without a doubt. We're in the for profit, back to the for profit reign. Within the franchise we were combining the two. We're sort of Saying the nurses are for profit but the organizations is, aren't for profit but my experience was just that the entire entity became non-profit.

Board that is non-profit. When you have staff that are thinking non-profit. When they engage with the nurses that are for-profit, the entire conversation comes down to. We cannot afford to pay for this, we're reaching everybody. It all becomes a very charitable mentality, and that's one thing that I feel that For where we are in Africa today I think we do need to build sustainable business and I think we do need to be thinking for profit, and bring in all of the disciplines of for profit, to serve the markets that need to be served.

Thank you. Lisa, thank you. The international convention of the rights of the child prevent abuses to children around the world, Yet. If you visited urban areas around the world, you've seen the conditions of children disconnected from their families. And something has to be done about it. And there have been couple of approaches to this.

Non-profit approaches. I want to introduce again, Sebastian Moreau, Friends International. You could do it as straight NGO, non-profit, but you're doing really more than that. Tell us about it. Thank you. A difficult job coming last. A little about me Because it would probably put in frame what I am doing and how I am not a social worker.

I study political sciences. I work for the French consulate in Japan. work for Loreal, the cosmetic company in marketing and ended up working with children in Cambodia initially by accident when I travel through. So bring from a very different perspective which probably explains why I'm looking at things a little differently.

Friends International actually 1994 in Cambodia we're working with marginalized urban children youth, mainly street children, but also migrant children children from drug abuse, gangs, as well as sex workers and A large group of children. Our aim is to reintegrate them into society, so really make them, empower them to become.

functional productive citizens. And that's really objective. So immediately we're moving away from a charity based to looking at how we can develop the country because children, you need to invest in children if you're serious about developing a country and if you leave all these children behind, well you have a load of problems including the fact that The country goes backwards.

You have a bunch of young people that are angry and create problems and violence, international violence even. if you are not careful. And terrorism is a...So you need to really address that issue, and that's why we moved into that. We have five projects and that's what's important. We start our own projects for street children and other vulnerable children.

We try to provide the best services possible, so we collect these all into the Friends' Alliance projects and currently we have projects in Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Indonesia, and we're opening this year in Hong Kong and probably Egypt. So we're expanding with a range of projects from outreach drop-in centers, residential centers, vocational training, remedial schooling, reintegration, and addressing all the issues kids might face, drugs, HIV, and so on.

So this our social side, if you want.

We also realize that if we do this, even if we do the best job possible, If we do it alone, it won't work. So it's only if you work with others that you actually have a bigger impact. So we created what is called the city network, where we work with a range of partners, work together, build them up so that they provide also best services possible.

That allowed us to reach out to about...contact about a million children last year. This is all very nice, again, but...I'm sorry, I'm going through the entire project so you understand the frame. It's all very nice, but what happens is that NGOs do the work and you disempower societies. I receive phone calls from people saying, "Oh, I found this kid.

What are you doing, NGO?" My answer is, what are you doing you, community person? What is, you know, you're responsible for your own children. NGOs are taking away responsibilities. So the game here is to give back responsibility, and we created the child safe network, a huge network, where we train key people in communities to protect children and the community is taking back power.

And then we also say, "Well, children have to be very much involved in finding solutions to their own problems." So we started another project again called Urban Action where young people are supported to start projects for their communities, for their own friends.

Now all this is all very nice. It costs about $3 million a year. And a few problems. First problem is, I'm going to see these kids, I'm going to see these families, and I say, "You're empowered. You can do it. You can make the money." And then as an organization, I have to do the same. I have to do what I preach.

I cannot go and see donors all the time and say, "Please give me a little money so I can run my project." So I want to do what I'm telling them as an example. The other thing is also we're working in countries where donations, international donations, Cambodia is off the list, more or less. I mean there is a lot less attention but it's going down.

Other countries are more, much more attention now Laos. Lodona[sp?] knows where Laos is. It's very difficult to find money. Thailand. Everyone goes to Thailand and says "Oh my god, look at Bangkok, beautiful, they don't need anything". Indonesia, oh my god, they got billions of dollars with tsunami.

They don't need anything. So, getting money in those countries is getting more and more and more difficult. So, yet again another reason why we need to find our own funds. So this is why we started what i call the Good money enterprises, which, the objective is to support all our activities, generate funds so we can support all our activities and not rely on.

Nations forever and ever, and we do this in 3 main directions: we have what we call the vocational training business. Now, i told you that. We run vocational training for young people; it's a big major part of what we do because we talk about empowering, making them citizens, and making them sustainable.

vocational training is key. Traditional vocational training is, you put kids in a center, they all study and then you dump them in the real world and they're really not ready for the real life because you're vocational training in real life are somehow too different. They're not really ready because they didn't have real experience.

And from very early on I decided that all our vocational training should be run like businesses. Benefit one, kids get Sorry, young people, because, of course we don't do child labor. So, young people. Very important. Young people get this. experience real life. And, if you're good enough, you generate profit and your training is sustainable and you don't rely on donors.

So we have. started basically all our vocational training, and in Phnom Penh, for example we have 12 different trainings. They're all geared toward business. The most prominent probably are restaurants. We have 3 restaurants in Phnom Penh that are run as trainings and they work absolutely fantastically well.

direct response. The trick here of course is, people come to your restaurant first because it's a chartium support children. What we want is for them to come back because the food is good and the atmosphere is great. And it works, and it supports a humongous chunk of our activities. Now we have a lot of other of these training businesses.

Then we move towards something else very close to what you're doing, is what we call where we - the problem was ok, we were helping those young people and we support a vocational training. What about a school where younger children go and they don't work and they shouldn't work. So we turn towards the parents and mostly the mothers and start social businesses.

Now social businesses are, for us, money making ventures, but the first objective is, of course, a social profit, and not so much a financial profit. The social profit being that parents' income is increased and they're able then to support their own children and the positive cycle has kicked in.

If, on top of that, there's money made and we can support ourselves and so on, then it's excellent, and we're working very hard to achieve both. That works also very nicely.

We have over a hundred families now that are producing different things, and making on average over a $100-$120 that's in Cambodia. It doesn't sound like a lot, but a teacher is making $25-$35 a month or so The families are quite nice. Doing quite nicely. So social business is a very interesting part of what we're doing, and there is a lot of when probably in the discussion we'll have more time to go into details, however we also have then is the really profit making initiatives, where we have goods that we create and we sell.

We have cookbooks, we have t-shirts, we have a lot of ranges of different articles that we sell. Cookbooks for example, we made over $160, 000 dollars just with one cookbook. That's a great income generation for the organization. So all this allows us to be, our main project in Phnom Penh is 35 percent sustainable now which is a great achievement when you think of, working with children.

In Phnom Penh, from Phnom Penh, we're not in the US with this huge market, we're this tiny little country, tiny market. That's a big challenge. for us. So, the results are very, very positive and I would reencourage all our partners to move towards in spot of what we do when we work with our is to build them up so they can generate their own profit and money.

Thank you. Now while I appreciated the seventh inning stretch yesterday, I thought it was a little America-Canada-Japan-centric. So, let's try something a little bit more international and multi-cultural. How about a 10 seconds of trans and dental meditation. Everybody stand up if you'd be so kind.

Without knocking over your neighbor, step up please. OK. Shake out the tension in your arms. Wow, that was the tension going. Close your eyes, everybody be quiet just for a second. and listen to the sound of the quiet room. Breath in. and exhale. Open your eyes, thank you very much, you're about to now go in to the other part of our discussion.

How many, show of hands, how many people here, so I can get a sense of who's here. How many people here have a direct affiliation or work with any of our panelists? Yeah, a few. How many people here are, would like to, eventually, be a part of a social enterprise? How many people here would describe themselves presently as as a social entrepreneur?

And how many people here are business people interested in funding a social entrepreneurship venture, should some day they find, exactly. Like flies to flypaper. There are two wonderful people who have microphones that will be roving so we can all share. Tell me your name sir, in the orange. constantine.

Is there another. What's your name?

Paul.

Paul. Excellent. So let's engage in some vigorous conversation here. A lot of provocative ideas on the table. Micro-utilities is a new word that we learned here today, a calculator for fair wages. Tell us your name and your questions please. I'm Shari Berenbach from Calvert Foundation. What I'd love to hear from many of the participants is a little bit about the internal management information systems, accounting systems that you have in your businesses because I kept wondering about the economics of the, for example the micro ability or the store-in-store.

And how do you determine what part of your businesses are in fact profitable. It requires a certain level of internal MIS, or accounting systems, to be able to do that kind of analysis. And then I start to wonder where does even the financing come to support those kinds of internal information system that you need to do a good job.

Bree, do you want to start because you have the two parts really in the way you do the business.

Sure. So, yeah, well we, first of all when we decided which way to go the key decision for us was where we wanted to scale and distribution and revenue through sales as the primary driver. That's were we chose to drive all of that into a for-profit business model. Where we wanted to create business assets in the public interests, like standards and technologies that were, we made those guaranteed inside of the five oh one C three.

As far as the administrative infrastructure, I think that, I feel like as an entrepreneur, one of the most important things is to think think about sustainability in every stage of what we do, and in the business side we run that business just like any other, you know wholesale business and then our technology platform with eBay.

We run that business just like eBay runs its other businesses.

We really studied just the way that wholesale vendors, retailers, work. We do unit economic models that look just like that. Our sales force and our commission strategy, everything is really replicating best practices from the industry. We use a technology called NetSuite as one of our technologies.

We do a warehouse management system. We have - and all of that is, in my opinion, part of the cost of doing business well and running a successful company, and that's what we have to do.

On the development organization side we run it as a totally separate accounting and finance set of books. Everything is managed separately, and so we - there are really two parallel systems running side by side.We see that is just the cost of the way to be successful and we have to build that into all of our long term operations, prices, structure.

curious why you asked. Does it help you in trying to understand which are worthy organizations, or does it trouble you at all, that there are for-profits alongside of non-profits?

No. Not at all. But one of the things that often happens is, often the investment in technology and accounting administrative systems is something that's typically funded out and retained earnings. So, either you have the capacity to have enough capital at the outset to finance that or it's often a challenge many NGO's have, is really developing adequate internal administrative systems.

And as a result, they're often running strategies that look good in concept, but actually are not profitable themselves, and, so I was just wondering how, to me, it's because we do invest in social enterprises and that is often where whoever hits the road so to speak.

Just a comment about it. I think this is one of the issues for for-profit companies. We have investors. For instance, this year we'll probably spend several million dollars on an ERP system. We have to track what's happening in each village. The scale of what we're trying to do is to reach hundreds of millions of people eventually.

So you can't do it without the assistance. And so when we go to investors we have to convince them that we have a business model that can make these investments and getting the offer return to them. And we are putting those things in place.

Question on this side of the room. Down here in front if you can not knock over that camera. Right here. Keep your hand up. It's actually this nice person in the scarf. It's question for Priya.

Tell us your name.

I'm Dorothy Wolfe. I was with the Avina Foundation up until 3 weeks ago. Right now I'm between things. Avina works only in Latin America. I'm very curious about this strategy, the brand strategy, with the products, curious about why it is that you want to be in Target, for example. That type of thing would seems to me it would be watering down the brand.

If anybody can buy your products, maybe they're not special enough to buy. Curious about that.

So, sorry, maybe because I was rushing, I wasn't very clear and I apologize. So actually our brand, World of Good, is actually positioned as what we would call an accessible luxury brand. So what that means is not...we probably wouldn't go to Target, actually. We are more in a Whole Foods, probably a Macy's.

Our partnership with Ebay makes it very accessible. Our goal, though, is to make it something that every consumer can purchase this way. And so we work a lot through partnerships, and that's why what we're trying to do on the business side is actually create branded contribution for many of these kinds of projects.

Through the standards work we are trying to influence the practices of many companies, even Target or Cost Plus or somebody like them, because what we have seen, for example, in the organics industry, organic milk is sold at Wal-mart and it's organic milk. The idea that ethically sourced or fair trade product can be sold with integrity by a conventional retailer.

We believe it can be done if the standards are clear and transparent and that's what's going to drive volume to the market. So, when I say we want to move five billion dollars of purchasing power, our brand as a company we'll absorb and move some fraction of that and we can be as ambitious as we want to capture as much of it as possible.

Through our standards work and through the methods that are created there, that can influence billions more dollars of power of purchasing without a doubt having to go through our brand, our company anything, and then through the eBay platform, we're influencing hundreds of other companies and initiatives to be able to sell there, hopefully sombody like the one that is here, you know any one of these can use that as a platform and it doesn't, it's not constrained.

So these are all solutions that scale aggressively. That's really the idea.

Any other question? Down right there.

Thank you. Nigel Kershaw, chairman of the Big Issue. For those who know it's it's a magazine, one hundred and seventy-five thousand copies a week, nine hundred thousand readers, generates fifteen million pounds in the economy, and it's sold by homeless people. We are a highly profitable company.

I want to describe a hybrid if I may? We are a limited company. As shareholders, we are not allowed to take a dividend. We can be paid as Directors and we have an asset lock on our company. And I think the part of the problem is the word profit. We want to make loads of profit and then what we're doing with our profit is reinvesting it in homeless and vulnerably housed people, in order to advance both them and our business, and I think that's a hybrid model that we, and the problem is that we have now set up a social investment bank called Big Issue Invest, trying to scale up those kind of hybrid models, and our challenge at Pioneers, is we're not imitating charity, we're not imitating for profit companies.

We're creating something new. And so, like with the minister yesterday we're saying, if you're a charity in this country, in the UK, you get forty percent tax relief for investing in a charity, one off gift. If you're investing in the new private company, in equity you can get various tax relief, thirty, forty percent.

If you're a social enterprise, you get nothing. And, actually, we are people who are changing the face of business by merging and both social and financial objectives, and our challenge with pioneers is saying recognize this as a new of making both social and financial transformation.

Thank you very much. Hi, my name is Refiros Nedak. I work for the Rothchild foundation. I was actually an investment banker once. And I wanted to share with Trallence and possibly Lisa some of the issues I faced as an investment banker which perhaps you will relate to. Dealing with water treatment, I had the opportunity to be engaged in quite vast operations, for instance, with large French companies obtaining concessions for big cities like Buenos Aires, for instance, in Argentina.

Now these operations were politically difficult, and I think David also touched on that in terms of the access to water. And it appears that these companies perhaps operating under similar model as yours. Where, first of all battling over the fee, over the concession because you mentioned for instance that these mini water treatment facilities actually belong to the village community.

However, my first question is do you negotiate any form of concession fees with them? And secondly how do you cover your cost? if the individual consumer will pay 5 or 10 rupees. And it appears that the cost structure is very a similar question to Lisa. You are developing now these, from what I understand, small clinics in low to medium income Nairobi or else where, if i understand correctly.

Now i understand that the focus is for profit. Again I'll assume that these people cannot afford to cover all your costs when it comes to technology, medical supply and so on. And so, what is your revenue model that allows you actually to break even? Thank you. Let me take a shot at it. Our business model is, first of all we sell those facilities, those micro-utilities, so we get paid and we make a gross margin on it, so we can support marketing, education and all kinds of things.

We also qualify each community in which we go into. Is there anything there that lead us to believe that they can afford to pay one rupee or two rupees for water. And so we built these financial models and we have been testing them. And the good news is that, in fact the first village that we were in, we were so concerned about whether we were going to pay for the water that what they told us--and this is within a week--is that this is so cheap that rather than walk 100 yards and come to the facility, they were willing to pay two or three times that much for somebody to bring the water to them.

Now you're talking about a transformation from somebody who used to walk miles to get water and very quickly, the cost is so low. So we actually know people who are paying two, three, four times that much. So, we have answered the question of, are they willing to pay. What we have set up with the banks, and I know the problems that you talked about in Latin America and this is it.

Water is so political. The notion of some foreign company coming in and owning your water is a huge problem. So what we do is that we don't own that asset. We actually have the community give us the land to put the plant on and access to the water. Anybody who wants to continue drink dirty water can do so.

We don't own the water.

And we calculated that.

If 40 percent of the community will access the water and use it at a certain rate, we will make enough money to run the property and to maintain it.

And we take on the risk of doing that. and I know that this is for investment bankers, this is the nervouse part, because we are taking on a risk that we are going to drive costs so far down. and we're going to be able to operate efficiently, so the community is looking at an upside;
very little downside.

We take that on. Liza .

When we were setting up the franchise outlet in the rural areas and sort of looking at the full unit metrics We were willing to accept that with the nurses in the rural areas
it could make just a little bit more than, let's say the GDP which is, like three hundred and fifty dollars a year and yet the most successful clinics, even in the rural areas, are earning in the region of five thousand dollars a year.

When I was running pharmacies in Nairobi and addressing maybe the corporate market, more the high end market, the pharmacies there were doing something in the region of 15,000 US net profit per year, per outfit. Within this liberal model, even addressing the middle to low income, I'm still looking at a very conservative figure of just like $10 000 net, net profit per outlet per year.

So in three years with about twelve outlets we've got, again very conservatively, 120,000 and for the cost of setup within urban, low to middle income, the overhead and the running cost are much much more contained. it is much as expensive as going out to serve, you know, very widely dispersed rural outlets, so yes, it does, it does make sense as an investment, and investors coming in now can count on getting, you know, positive returns within five years.

But allowing for building up of scale, it's very important that investors coming in are looking at the longer term and are looking at building up true scale and not quick, you know, sort of easy in and easy out, and we're not looking to provide twenty percent returns either. We're really looking at people interested in something more reasonable, you know, let's say, five percent or so.

Thank you. Gentleman, back there, quite eager to ask a question.

My name is Jerry Hill Debryan. I am the executive director of the global center for socical entrepreneuership at the university of pacific in California. My question is for Sebastian. I'm wondering, in your program, if you have thought about the whole idea of youth entrepreneurship and also looking at a micro-credit fund that your organization could run that would help not only with sustainability but providing capital to young people to start their own businesses.

Very good question. All these things I wanted to talk about. We tried micro-finance, micro-credit in the past. We are not a micro-finance company, so we're not very good at it. But also we realize that when we work with our target group, very, very low education, from really the bottom bottom, micro-credit doesn't work.

You are actually putting them down initially. So what works is more grant to start up or what we're trying to do, the productions and help them produce. And then eventually they are into a movement and then they can access micro-credit and then we help them with other NGOs that do a much better job than we do.

Now, for young people themselves, the ones we train and to make them go into life in good conditions, we act more like parents. My parents helped me and never expected me to reimburse them. I think, when you start in life with a debt, it's a little complicated. I know that in the US, your studies are so expensive that many students start with debt but, and I think that for these young people it's a way to start up.

So we do start up support more than credit initially. However, for the Urban Action Project, where young people come to us with a project, then it is a totally different approach, because they come to us and say "Okay, we would like to do this for the community" and some of these initial initiatives are business type initiatives.

For this we either do the grant or we do a micro-credit hoping that they will reimburse without putting too much pressure on them because we want them to succeed. So the models can be mixed really. We try to approach it as flexible as possible for the maximum result for the young people. Did I answer your question?

You did. I would like to talk with you more about it.
Right here, then I'll get up there.

Thank you all very much. My name is Paul Bishop. I am from Australia. I come with a distinct disadvantage. I don't come from a business background. I come to talk about a huge migration that's happening of artists out of their careers, and I think what's happening in society is that throughout the western world at least we're losing a lot of people who have creative capacity to prior innovation and actually make a more collaborative and creative future, and so I think that the potential for education and training is a very interesting area.

And I realize that over the last few years, I've been creating similar model, Priya, to exactly what you have got. What I'm interested in is, do you pay those people, those ethical rights that you've agreed on, do you pay them out of the not-for-profit section, or does that come out of the commercial company and also, do you consider allowing other people, other collaborators, who might be competitors, to exploit those people's content, but actually return profits, in the same way that you do to the organization.

So, first of all, all of the buying and selling and distribution, building the brand is one hundred percent on the business side. That's absolutely commercial in the way we interact. All of the standards in terms of and fair competition are said in the profit side or open source available to any organization.

And the business is sort of the first compliant entity, that is kind of the way it works, so these guys make standards, Holly and her team make standards, and I run a business that manages to those standards. As far as your question about can the producers that we work with other sellers. We have a very open model.

Every product that World of Goods sells identify its origin, the story of the producer, how it was made, how it benefits them, whether that's in a retail store or whether that's online. And the goal is to stimulate the other people to go and buy from those same people so we have companies calling us all the time and we tell them if you want us to help you source the product, we will help you source it.

If you want work directly with the artisans and the producers. No problem, go ahead. We don't sign exclusivity agreements. On the products that we design, we ask the producers to make those just for the company for 18 months. But if they make a different version of it or they do something different with it or even if they go ahead and make it we don't, I mean, it is not interesting to us to spend our time enforcing, now there is lot more innovation that we can create, and I think the other part, that we believe strongly in, is that really our goal is to stimulate across all different ways that this can occur.

Either we can buy it and sell it on the business, we can partner with others who are buying it and selling it and help them sell more, which is what we're doing with Ebay, or we can create standards that any company that's buying can buy better. And those are standards that anyone can use and that's really what Holly does.

So we want to just stimulate the market to shift across all those different methods.

There was a patient who would be questioner, in this quadrant here. No? There he is. I am Mike Wayne. I am one of the score scot a side business school. And I also work for a Canadian organization called Engineers Without Borders that works in the water sanitation and agriculture sectors in southern and west Africa.

I was interested in Liza's comment about how your franchise model, the non-profit mindset sort of took it over. And I find in the development sector there's a big shift towards NGO's implementing sort of enterprise development projects. And a lot of these NGO's come from having implementing charity models for a long time and now we're trying to support small enterprises or cooperatives.

And I'm just wandering, how do you sort of mitigate that risk of having the same people that have had this charitable mindset suddenly go into the enterprise model and what can you do to, I guess, mitigate it and to--can it be done effectively?

My experience is that it's very challenging. If you come from a non- profit mindset, that you look at challanges and you look at problems and you look at the people. Your solutions will be ones that are, you know, charity-oriented. Now, interestingly enough, when I have gone into meetings with heads of corporate businesses to talk about this thing called CSR, corporate social responisbility and talk to them about the activities that they are are engaged in for charity I find the same mindset there.

You know, it's something like if I am head of a corporation, and we're very profitable and we're making making good money and we want to donate some of this to CSR, I take off my, you know, let's make a, what makes a in a sense into Oh, but this is charity, this is, you know what people need this is, we have to give it to them and it is ok not to get them money back both ways.

And what I'm feeling is that if we really are looking at building sustainable efficient systems is you either approach it from, it's a business, and it's got to make business sense, or you approach it from, you know, it's a charity, and, lets do this philanthropically and do it that. Wait but you will find in me somebody, whose come through from the four Prophets, through the development and whose is coming out of development.

Go right now about you know development minds in enterprise. Just wanna add a couple of words to that, what our business model is actually to work with NGO's underground. In many other places that we work they are trusted in those communities and they are doing some things to the communities. I think that the question is very well taken.

What we have found is that on the international level the NGO's understand what we offer them is a proposition says look, we can either got to a commercial entity to do this job for us and pay them a commission.
Or we can use you I pay you the same, commercial rates I would pay somebody else.

So they can do the financial analysis in my .

This is a a lot better than going to beg for money, but once you implement there is an emotional issue about whether people who go to NGOs want to do something that makes profit or not.

And I think that emotional issue is the biggest nut to crack.

There's a patient person right there. Ryan Davis, Ginnisville, Green business.

With a question for most of the panel.

How are you going to tackle the fact that you face a real conundrum.

What you are doing now has become actually the trend.

It is not the and so many of the organizations that have been set up in the past, like the Body Shops, like Greva Blacks, with a few noble exceptions like Big Issue, have been taken over by the big corporates themselves. I mean, I've heard two presentations at least here, The World of Good and also The Water Treatment.

World of Good I thought, hey, Wal-Mart could come along and create a World of Great, and I looked at Water Treatment, and I thought, well if I was Tennessee Water or another major utility looking for a thing, I'd get over to Africa very fast. How are you going to tackle this conundrum?

Would the conundrum be that the big corporations solve this giant social problem?

Is that a conundrum? Is that an answer? You then move onto your next challenge.

I have a feeling that our panelists could probably find work in a lot of interesting areas, given the fact that they're geniuses, but would you like to take that on?

We 've been asked how would we know when we're successful and what we said is that this pole idea is to break private capital to solving some of the world's critical issues. The more capital that we can draw to this area, the more companies that engage in this areas, the more successful everybody would be.

So that really for us is not a conundrum, because that`s actually is the purpose.

Ya, and I would say in parallel, looking at it more from the consumer dynamics environment, which is how we think of our strategy, is really facing the consumer. The idea that you're the exception is maybe a source of early differentiation in any company's positioning a brand, so world of good as a place that when you buy something you help a person.

That's fine as an early positioning. Our entire model of inspired competition is designed to take it from being exception to at least being common and ideally to being norm. And if we are able to make a norm out of it, then we think that's very successful, and the way that we architect-ed the company's charter is designed to plan for that exit for example, five percent of the equity of the companies owned by the development organization and will roll into these kinds of long term standards being developed and the charter of the business is so that all of the standards created in the development organization have to be implemented in the products.

And so regardless of what the business exit becomes, anybody who inherits that business maintains that obligation and the most powerful keeper of that promise is our consumer, so if you have made the right connection with your consumer, they really hold your business on track, regardless of what the scale end and or exit strategy becomes.

though if world of good gets acquired which is, you know, one of the kinds of scenarios or if another big company launches a parallel strategy and takes us out competitively. If they've absorbed that consumer promise and executed it correctly, then what we care about is that billion dollars shifting hands, not necessarily whether or not World of Good may be the instrument or it may be the step in the process.

And we are happy with either, if the goal gets done.

They are gonna need this room so just, the last question.

Thank You. I'm Farshad with Relief International and I want to thank all the panelists. I learned a lot. I heard a few things that, sort of, made me, sort of, quench a little bit. I think we were in Oxford and you can't escape the awesome stores. There is a tradition, there is this idea of making profit and using it for good and there is a history there, but this debate about non-profits.

Non-profits, this is a very broad category I think you're absolutely right. At the one end, you have the very charitable model, but at the other end you have very socially empowering organizations that do hold communities responsible for the kids, and do engage in practices where the communities are empowered and enabled.

And again we have to be careful, again, sitting in an institution of higher learning not to throw the baby out with the bath water. For example, your model, as you mentioned, depends on a lot of projects that help women get to the point where they can produce goods. Whether it's through training or loans that they've already received through the World Bank, or NGO's, or AID, or other.

So I think there's much more integration between this sort of exciting and very new and useful and necessary sort of trend and models that we're looking for. But we don't want to throw the baby out and say, "Oh this is the new and i caution also that we've seen a few models of, as you mentioned, for example, what is the bottle company that's not with starbucks also imediate ,[xx],funding at the the beginning, yes,[xx].

Again, starting with the very community based module of the profit going to the community. for what a proper project but after being but out all that you were look at the money was going it not trickle down moved from a sort of a trickle up approach to, oh we'll give the money to sort of the big institutions, oh it will reach down.

So, not to criticize. Again, it's still good. It's value it's value added for the common good but we don't want to throw away the social action roots of the community of nonprofits and again the [xx] has evolved, yes from a charity model to a social empowering model. Not everybody's doing it but a lot are.

But again, i commend you You know a lot of us are learning from you. We are using similiar models we want to, but we need both. Your comments bring to mind of a final story here as we hear your Stomachs rumbling here. I am from the north eastern state of United States of Amin where forks to lot of hunting.

I am not a hunter do really believe in it. A friend of mine is a hunter, and he got himself a brand new hunting dog that he paid a premium for and he asked the guy selling it, what does this dog do I'm paying so much money. You'll see. So he goes out the main woods, shoots himself a duck, which falls toward a pond, and this dog goes shooting right across the top of the pond, and brings back the duck, does it again.

Once again, right across the top of the lake. That is quite a hunting dog. He wants to show his friend, his buddy Elmer[xx] about this amazing dog. Only thing is, Elmer a bit of a cynic. He is the town cynic, takes Elmer out on a hunting trip there's the duck shoots, a duck falls right down toward a pond the dog goes shooting across the pond grabs it looks over at dog, Quite a dog, huh?

Man says, I just thought he couldn't swim. The moral of the story is what is apt. The moral of the story is, even if you can walk on water, you'll still have your critics. Thank you for all your good works, thank you to the panelists, our wonderful panel, thank you to the Sayid School of Business, and to the Skoll Foundation, and thank you for your attention.

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